Havenheed

Getting Land -- Making a Nation

I don't think we have any discussions devoted purely to land. This can be a central, easy-to-get-to place to discuss it.

Right now our only way to the land is via purchase, which means we need to think about a few things.

First off, I think, pooled, we probably have like a few grand. I know I can 100% commit to at least 1,000 USD, probably more. Few people are probably going to genuinely commit to putting in for this... so we need to explore other avenues. Could we be sponsored by someone? Could we be someone's investment somehow? What about Vegan Societies, have we contacted any Vegan Societies?

Where do we want to be? I think one thing that binds us is English. It seems like all Havenites are going to be able to communicate in, or at the very, very least, understand English. If we can't grab an island of some sort, we should look into land in current nations that are pretty solid at English-speaking. We don't need to somehow wind up detained and beaten by people we can't understand. :p

I suppose we'd need to, first, become citizens of the Nation whose land we start using? I don't know how secession works nowadays -- but just using Quebec as an example... if we can get a few hundred or more than a thousand people in a pretty isolated spot and put forth our wishes to secede, maybe ew could pull that off with a 100% vote.

Climate would need to be moderate or warmer... at least ideally. We don't really want much of a winter, we grow our food! Greenhouses would need heating and we probably won't have the best resources to put considerable energy into it.

... Discuss!

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Permalink Reply by Jonas Hellö on November 13, 2010 at 21:06
As techniques of preserving food are becoming more popular again - drying, pickling and such (and sprouting for fresh sources of vitamins and enzymes) - such knowledge could be used to maintain a good nutritional status in a cooler climate, but I too would prefer something warm. Cold climate does have the 'benifit' of isolating us more, making us more unattainable - such areas are usually already sparsely populated - if we wish to seclude our community to a high degree, making our world more 'special', and at least in Sweden, land in the coldest part up north is far cheaper to buy than down south (also the north of Sweden is more vegan populated already, and more socialistic, if Sweden would be our consideration).

On the other hand perhaps we'd like to be a very open society, with all the possible risks that could involve too, and a warmer climate would make us more tourist friendly, I guess.

Preferably we'd have a good possibility to offer whichever other country we'd end up in a good income too, instead of alienating ourselves - perhaps a sparsely populated area, as mentioned (though it could be warm), would actually be grateful if a few thousand people moved there and payed taxes and bought products locally? I think even if we then succeed to break loose we should show good will and agree to paying taxes to that other country - at the very least be open in business and import/export - enriching that area, proving a resource rather than a nuisance. And on that note we could, if we gain good insights in self-sufficiency and farming, move to a poorer part of the world - often warm - and offer our services as nutritionists and farmers - with the obvious risk of making us look like opportunists and conquerors - 'missionaries'.
Permalink Reply by Rand Foxwillow on November 13, 2010 at 22:36
i actually enjoy the cold, but for crops it's sadly not that great. :p i'd probably be pretty fine, personally, in just about any non-extreme climate. how much is land in sweden?

i think i would make the move to sweden, but i fear few would. i know that australian (or was it new zealand?) island moon posted would have been amazing, but we're only 0.5% of the way there, money-wise. haha.

i think american or canadian land (or close to) would be best for the havenites we already have, though i will admit to be part of this i would probably move just about anywhere. even if we fail, it's amazing to have been part of something.
Permalink Reply by Nora Marie Qudus on August 24, 2011 at 2:52
I was talking to a lady in Maine today and she was picking green beans and it is a lush garden state that has a short but mighty growing season.
Permalink Reply by Rand Foxwillow on November 13, 2010 at 23:05
Permalink Reply by Rand Foxwillow on November 15, 2010 at 20:40
point being, half a million dollars isn't impossible to raise. hmm
Permalink Reply by Development Department on November 16, 2010 at 2:34
And we would be taking land away from farmers and hunters which would be a great bonus. But how about investigating the possibilities of claiming land for free first?

http://www.claimland.co.uk/

http://freeproperty.webeden.co.uk/

I don't know how reliable the sites above are but a lot of what they say seems to be verified by a lot of sources. Perhaps you could search for similar North American websites and see if you think it's a plausible option.
Permalink Reply by Rand Foxwillow on November 17, 2010 at 20:34
i've poked around and unfortunately it seems that there is some stupid gimmick about "owning a piece of america" where you can claim a square inch of land or some shit. it's really getting in the way.

although there are some communities in like, kansas, that seem to be giving land away to settlers. it would be great if we could all get several large tracts of land and then just make our "city" in one spot, and use the rest of the land as we see fit later. not sure that'd fly, though, and some have a technicality of making a 1000+ sq foot house on the land within a year. maybe if someone else pokes around they can find better..
Permalink Reply by Jonas Hellö on November 16, 2010 at 14:52
I think you've found a lot of cheap land there, probably cheaper and larger areas than in Sweden. I can look further, but I mainly find estates, or what you call it, farms and other land areas with houses already on them - which could be quite good, actually, when starting a nation (water and waste are already taken care of, and often electricity too), but usually there is no more than one or a few houses. Ideally we should find a whole abandoned city, or more, sort of ready to move in to, but usually there is a reason for it being abandoned, like it being poisoned or whatever. If it is abandoned just for reasons of it being too remote, though, that should be fine.

A way of acquiring land is by loaning money in a bank - if we as a group did so (even preferably with a business plan backing us up - something like building a holiday resort or starting a farm) we could actually make it, I think, but still we're back to the old catch 22 of trying to convince everyone to agree to such a loan, or just, as already mentioned, investing ourselves - it feels like we could only be enough people for us to possibly invest in something large enough if we already are many enough and have the land..! And we couldn't really start small scale either, because we have to know we are able to buy more land if we grow, instead of ending up 'just' a village somewhere - though buying a whole block in a city or so would be rather cool too.
Permalink Reply by Alexandra Siobhan Barrable on November 29, 2010 at 11:51
Come to England,it's pretty epic :) I'm sure a vegansocioty would support us :) I'm not sure how it works either but i'm sure if enough people wanted it a goverment wouldn't be able to refuseit :) x
Permalink Reply by Rand Foxwillow on November 29, 2010 at 13:36
i would believe land in england would be at more of a premium. i am thinking right now that a starting place for our village/town means we would need a decent chunk of land for seclusion's sake and potential growth. i'd think we'd need at least a square mile (600+ acres) to get underway. more would be better but probably unattainable... hm
Permalink Reply by Robert Howes on April 5, 2011 at 6:30

I too vote for England (or Wales where I am), the UK anyway.  I have thought of ways of getting what we want but I cannot do it alone.  Anyone care to join me in Wales?  It is raining just now but we get good weather too.  We put up a shed over a two week period with no rain to stop us recently.  It was glorious Spring weather.  If anyone asks me how to get what we want I will explain it.  Or if you Google my name and circle city or cities you will find the answer.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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Permalink Reply by Development Department on December 14, 2010 at 2:54

I think if we go for the full on land based community it should be in the U.S. Factory farming as we know it is an American invention and the world follows America. If we can set a different trend within the country then it would have a much greater chance of a world wide effect than it would in any other nation. I think we should go to the heart of the problem by creating a strong base within the country that is effectively our biggest diplomatic opponent. 

 

There are other advantages in that it is an English-speaking country, has a stable currency and a large population to market our ideals to. Indeed it is this population that we should pay most attention to as they have the capacity to do much more damage than any other. 

 

I doubt I would ever move to America but I'd certainly support creating our first community there. If we could draw up a convincing plan then it may persuade people and organisations to invest.

 

If we are going to pick one certain country for the first community then America gets my vote. I think if we all agree on the same country then we would have made a small but significant step forward. 

 

 

 

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